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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1137
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Posted - 2015.03.21 14:07:43 -
[1] - Quote
For newbies about 86% - don't die 13% - die legally 1% - die to ganks.
Two things not analysed:
- How many died in Low Sec? - How many died in their first battleship?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1137
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Posted - 2015.03.21 14:22:53 -
[2] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:It's pretty clear from the stats presented that anti-gankers are killing Eve and CONCORD needs to be nerfed into the ground. Concord is retribution, not protection.
Tangent: I really, really, oh so love the weekend tourists in Null.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1139
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Posted - 2015.03.21 17:00:27 -
[3] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote: The telling comments are:
"This is harder than I thought it was going to be." "This is going to take more time than I thought it would." And, we can't leave out, "This game is GREAT! I LOVE IT!". I like these. In Anarchy Online I used to log into the tutorial area and watch people:
To exit the tutorial area you needed to use a teleport tower to the main land. To activate it you speak to an NPC outside, get a key card and use the key on the terminal panel next to the teleport door.
I would see people bumping into the door, over and over again, then probably presuming that is as far as the free game goes they would sit down and log off forever.
I loved it.
I was standing right there. All they had to do was ask me, in local chat in private message or on the newbie channel. If I had seen them trying in another language I would have fired up Google translate.
They wouldn't read up about it They wouldn't ask about it.
I call these sort of mechanics "Darwin steps" and they help shape communities that I like playing games with when I am online.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1142
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Posted - 2015.03.21 21:35:05 -
[4] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Serene Repose wrote:I'd cry for the future of humanity, but I have four kids competing with these people IRL and I anticipate a nice, well-funded old age, judging by the strength of the competition. I tell you what. Let's have these flashes of human brilliance dictate the design of something very complicated, intricate and aesthetically superior. Good idea? R i i i i i ght! I wouldn't count my sheep just yet. My experience in the corporate world says that your kids will be getting coffee for the illiterate people you are complaining about. On this line of de-rail I am catagorically highly intelligent. Telling people that proves I am not clever.
It is how you socialise and make networks that get you forward in the world. High academic achievements only help if you aim to be a professor. (.... and you want to stay away from academics if you are in the UK. The Vogons have taken over and are under pressure to keep producing so when you do come up with something a bunch of people co-sign or take over your work completely.)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1143
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Posted - 2015.03.22 00:46:23 -
[5] - Quote
I wonder what it would be like if they had:
- a starting area that is one system, - all newbies go there - obvious count down timer to 12 hours - limitless newbie ships - no security - teleport them to regular starting area when team is up.
Essentially, newbies could fight other newbies in a free for all if they wished, jump right in and get a fell for combat.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1147
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Posted - 2015.03.22 16:24:33 -
[6] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Serene Repose wrote:I'd cry for the future of humanity, but I have four kids competing with these people IRL and I anticipate a nice, well-funded old age, judging by the strength of the competition. I tell you what. Let's have these flashes of human brilliance dictate the design of something very complicated, intricate and aesthetically superior. Good idea? R i i i i i ght! I wouldn't count my sheep just yet. My experience in the corporate world says that your kids will be getting coffee for the illiterate people you are complaining about. Never underestimate the power of the phd. I doubt these folks would be allowed in the same building. Come to think if it...they aren't! In the UK a PH.D generally makes you less employable. Better to put just your masters on your C.V.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1147
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Posted - 2015.03.22 20:06:31 -
[7] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: In the UK a PH.D generally makes you less employable. Better to put just your masters on your C.V. Welp. In the UK you hardly ever see that big yellow ball up in the sky! Come to where the living is. Come to South Florida. It's only going up to 85 F today! I guess that's 29.4 C. ... but mosquitos and .... I lived in Africa - I actually like UK weather. Chewytowel Haklar wrote:There are too many people scared out of their wits to enter null or ... I am in one of the most busy parts of Null with loads of tourists coming through.
All I can say to pretty much most of it is:
*Yawn.*
Only times my interest kicks in now is being logi on a Nightmare fleet and trying to keep our coalition from incurring that sort of loss.
Fozzie Logic's Low Sec 2.0 is going to be really annoying and probably not worth keeping a SOV home. (My current tourist experiences magnified).Scipio Artelius wrote:"I don't believe it because it's the wrong data" is a strange response. It's only the wrong data because it's being extrapolated out to answer a question it can't answer. That's not the fault of the data. I don't trust the data because the scope is too narrow on time and no mention of considered factors.
It looks like a rather simple query was run and got skewed results.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1147
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Posted - 2015.03.23 02:05:05 -
[8] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Dude, do you see the anti ganking types on here reacting like Vampires who just won an all expenses paid vaction....to the Sun Some of them have spent so much time on their knees praying at the altar of "think of the children" that they see CCP Rise shattering their illusions as heresy of the worst kind. I don't think I have ever been suicide ganked. I have been in High Sec corps under war decs. People jumping, leaving, logging off, quitting because they can't fight back. People getting into their first battleships then getting ganked in horrible T1 fits.
So, yeah, the 15 days scope does not cover enough of the "newbie" stage for me to accept what they are saying.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1148
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Posted - 2015.03.23 03:04:33 -
[9] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:People jumping, leaving, logging off, quitting because they can't fight back. Can't, or won't? I am unsure how current mechanics work but you would think you are fighting a corp back then and suddenly it was an alliance. The corp would hop alliances and bait wars.
Miners and mission runners tend to die like flies during the first war and they lose so badly they never want to PVP again. There is and always has been a lot of corps and alliances that haven't left the paddling pool and go around looking for easy kills with new, weak corps.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1152
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Posted - 2015.03.23 17:40:37 -
[10] - Quote
Scira Crimson wrote:Serene Repose wrote:Look. To do noob stats you have to consider - We get WoW refugees who think they're God's gift to gaming. . You must be an extremly ignorant person and elitest. People like this are the most ugliest in EVE online. I am an elitist. I often rhetorically ask, "Do you believe in evolution?" then with some sort of agreement I follow on with, "Then why do we ensure that the dim and feeble not only live but also breed? "
The Internet, when it was young, was my erudite haven and with the advent of AOL and W.aste o.f W.eb it has become severly watered down. That said, I don't yell out at some newbie how clueless they are like some people. (I can't think of an animal sufficient for this analogy). Most recently, some of the Brave players have received fits mailed to them unrequested along with a little guidance, they are probably not the best but they are a step up.
There are some regular others though, who think they know best and are as big a jerk as they can be, whom I take every opportunity to rub every loss into their emotional wounds like salt.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1152
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Posted - 2015.03.23 17:51:11 -
[11] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:The game mechanics are fine, even for new players. What may be lacking is clear conveyance of what those game mechanics are to newer players. If they know, and still get destroyed, that's on them... not "unfair game mechanics". The only time I have taken active vengence on someone in EVE was a newbie farmer. Day in and day out he would do it. (Not going to describe how because I don't want to spread this method around). A friend I later met and I tore his alliance apart and it was easy because it was where the maggots gather. However, years later he stil plays the game. I will probably take the opportunity to hunt and gank him at some point.
Point being that the mechanics can't be too restrictive but they could do with some balancing. The sly have many opportunities that they tend to run with just one tactic where a full strategy could be devastating.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1152
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:43:24 -
[12] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:... The only thing necessary is to make sure that the correct information is readily available to new players right off the bat, and that they are aware of exactly what things they need to know to survive and thrive... and where to learn it. I do agree up to a point, however, there is "information overload," which is why I suggested the newbie area.
They will be messing about with people their own skill level, no penalties, free stuff, gives them a feel for the game's combat mechanics, whether that is getting wiped out or not is up to them.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1152
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 19:03:26 -
[13] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:... Face it, if this was the type of game that wasn't complex/brutal enough to drive some people away, would we really still be playing? Probably not.
However, EVE isn't a sand box - it is a sand dune. Some kids have ropes and are trying to pull newbies to the top, some just watch them struggle and others throw sand down onto them and try cause avalanches.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1152
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:58:29 -
[14] - Quote
- I have ganked gate campers. - I have hot dropped.
Those are too easy and I scorn them. Before you say it is a bear thing:
- I have killed hot droppers.
The only time PVP really kicks in and I care is when it is a bunch of guys I like in a 10-15 vs 10-15 where the fight can go either way. Where your actions have measurable impacts on the outcome.
If are clearly overwhelmed, I would rather warp off somewhere and self destruct to spite them. If we clearly are going to wipe them out then I get not satisfaction.
So, NO. I could happily this game without the twits.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1152
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Posted - 2015.03.23 20:21:25 -
[15] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Some kids have ropes and are trying to pull newbies to the top, some just watch them struggle and others throw sand down onto them and try cause avalanches. Don't forget the ones trying to sell snowshoes to newbies. Hehehehehehee
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1155
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Posted - 2015.03.25 02:20:28 -
[16] - Quote
Hang on guys! I have this great idea on how to get some statistics on how bad technology is! Going to go ask the Amish what they think and hit them with a few quick questions, then run over to the next one, so I get their knee jerk answers.
Going out and seeking weak targets to overwhelm will always be supported by the craven.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1155
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 03:38:36 -
[17] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: You can stay in denial all you like... When are you going to prove that load of bilge you keep typing? +1
Essentially, CCP Rise gets up on stage and says, "Look at these poorly constructed statistics."
The problem being that there are so many obvious holes in it, before the data was collected, that we have to wonder what else is going on in the offices.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1156
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Posted - 2015.03.25 13:55:48 -
[18] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:One argument often thrown around in the community is that new players don't stay in the game because they are griefed out of it.. One of those figures that people are latching onto is the "legal kills" and one scenarios is where newbies are spammed duel requests.
*Splat*
Then they realise how long they are going to be so feeble and decide it isn't worth dying all the time. There are definitely break points in EVE.
The 15 days one with trial accounts if full of a lot of other reasons than ganking. As everyone in this thread has repeatedly said.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1156
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Posted - 2015.03.25 14:44:16 -
[19] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:... are you saying that a high percentage of new players are dueled out of the game in their first 15 days? No, I am pointing to another hole in CCP Rise's stats.
Basically, he is saying "There is 365 days in a year and we go around the sun" okay .... and ....?
What happens in this 365 days? Are there seasons? What is the pattern over a decade? Is there a moon going around the Earth? Is there any variance such as a leap year?
We are getting a bottom line from a weak premise without any of the working out or break downs of those stats. It should not have even been presented.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1159
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Posted - 2015.03.25 22:48:40 -
[20] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:... risk averse behavior..which goes back to the point of Eve not being for everyone. I understand not everyone "wants" to PvP..but everyone need to be able to and be prepared to..especially if they want to protect their interests. ... Sometimes if I know the ship type of an enemy, I will stay in a mining belt, aligned to a safe spot and wait for them.
Then when they land, I deliberately frustrate them and warp away.
I might re-ship and kill them or I might not but as long as I annoyed them then I got a little petty satisfaction, probably as much petty satisfaction as I think they should get out of an easy kill ... but then they wouldn't be so motivated, would they?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1162
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Posted - 2015.03.26 10:15:02 -
[21] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:i should start logging into themepark games' forums to start complaining that newbies are leaving the game in droves because i can't pk them *Clutches you side ways and pans arm across the horizon out ahead of us dramatically, painting an landscape of the imagination.* Imagine if there were two corporation boards, one for mercenaries and one for "white knights". Then when once corp / alliance contracts another, the white knight corp / alliance agrees or refuses to join a war defending a bunch of newbies. At the end of the war, the newbie corp gets to rate the white knight corp and leave a comment.
Just imagine giving the weak tools to get help? Shocking idea isn't it?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1176
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Posted - 2015.03.31 00:02:43 -
[22] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Didn't we euthanize this thread? Or, was it cauterize? Badly formed stats that make some of us question what CCP is doing?
That can't be toppled by opinions.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1178
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Posted - 2015.03.31 13:03:24 -
[23] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:.... since I stopped playing WoW Well, that explains a great deal.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1181
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Posted - 2015.03.31 22:24:34 -
[24] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Don't think it will happen? It already does. When a high sec corp gets a war dec, they also quickly get offers of assistance. A little research ( for those corps that actually do research) point to the potential allies being alts of the war deccers. Done right the really good ones would float to the top, like how Red Frog is known for their industrial work.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1181
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Posted - 2015.03.31 22:36:04 -
[25] - Quote
Dots wrote:Red Frog uses NPC Corp alts for hauling, so I'm not sure wardeccing really applies to them.
Edit: Grr, autocorrect Spies and suicide gankers do apply
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1186
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Posted - 2015.04.01 14:07:58 -
[26] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:I just saw the analysis as being a small subset of information with a very shallow analysis, but in itself correct, losing a Venture, what does that matter, its fun, and you CODE guys hanging on this make me all giddy with amusement... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYnzZ2rczSo March rabbit wrote:Just few examples of PvP i'm aware of: - gate camping - docking games - suicide ganking - hotdroping
... all of them need skills. ..... I guess the bar for that definition is lower with you. Veers Belvar wrote:... highsec PvE corps because wars ... , new players will continue to shrug and quit in droves. This is a bad thing?
EVE is here so many years later because it is niche and not a WoW clone.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1188
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Posted - 2015.04.01 16:59:34 -
[27] - Quote
Ito Eto wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: EVE is here so many years later because it is niche and not a WoW clone. One problem is a lot of devs and players seem to think every MMO should be able to reproduce Blizzard's success. Its the same kind of fallacy that .... On that note, I often say, "Waste of Web is so popular because it was the first MMO that ran on almost any machine and could be played by any idiot." (It also has a mass that sucks in a lot of innocent people by RL associations)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1189
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Posted - 2015.04.01 17:06:33 -
[28] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Rise's stats are interesting, but he may not be looking in the right place to see if there really is a problem. I would like to know: How many stop playing right after a ship loss? How many stop playing right after, or during, a prolonged period of war decs? +1
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1189
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Posted - 2015.04.01 17:26:47 -
[29] - Quote
Ito Eto wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Ito Eto wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: EVE is here so many years later because it is niche and not a WoW clone. One problem is a lot of devs and players seem to think every MMO should be able to reproduce Blizzard's success. Its the same kind of fallacy that .... On that note, I often say, "Waste of Web is so popular because it was the first MMO that ran on almost any machine and could be played by any idiot." (It also has a mass that sucks in a lot of innocent people by RL associations) There was a fair bit of prior art, such as Lineage and Everquest, which Blizzard shamelessly copied. Where, I believe, it got a massive leg up was large fanbase for Warcraft (the RTS) and utilizing familiar, comfortable western folk lore rather than bizzaro Asian folklore that many westerners have no historical memory of, or can't relate to. The point being that other MMOs existed before WoW but they either weren't so hardware compatible or required some brains to succeed in them.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1190
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Posted - 2015.04.01 18:54:12 -
[30] - Quote
Again. This is within a very narrow 15 days scope.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1190
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Posted - 2015.04.01 19:09:32 -
[31] - Quote
Ito Eto wrote:... the only known Sandbox MMO is Second life ... MMO is short for MMOG Massive Multiplayer Online Game. Games have measure of successes, in EVE how big an empire you build, ISK you collect, ships you fly well, kills you gather, etc.
Second Life has no objective that the player does not set for themselves and thus, it is a virtual world with games in it.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1190
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Posted - 2015.04.01 19:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
There is data, which can be turned into information and there is propeganda. Guess which one you are clutching to your breast and screaming that it is the truth?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1193
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Posted - 2015.04.01 19:52:11 -
[33] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:are we assuming that ccp only looked at fifteen days and never thought of looking at a longer period of time or are we assuming that ccp looked at a longer period of time, saw data that disagreed with what they saw in fifteen days and decided to present the fifteen day data at fanfest anyway "after having redefined sandbox contrary to the popular understanding of the word, i find eve is not a sandbox" 15 days of played time. It has been pointed out and this is from the top of my head that:
- To sit in a battleship takes 8 days minumum + misc skills + fittings, so that throws most of the newbies that quit after losing everything in one of those out of the window. - Newbies aren't worth ganking when they are too new. - Newbies getting into duels, seeing how feeble they are, how long they will take to get better and quit are under the "legally killed" group. - That 15 days covers a lot of trial players who weren't likely to stick around, they came on, had a look and quit. - They don't mention if this counts alt that aren't played again because they are forum ones. - This doesn't break down if they are throw away alt accounts used for scouting.
So on and so forth.
Taking the 15 days of people's play is too limited and ludicrous.
That this was even used, even run through the database makes CCP look very questionable. That people are clutching onto it is even more ridiculous.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1195
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Posted - 2015.04.02 00:13:13 -
[34] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Taking the 15 days of people's play is too limited and ludicrous. That this was even used, even run through the database makes CCP look very questionable. That people are clutching onto it is even more ridiculous. you're assuming that the limited example designed to demonstrate the importance of getting proper data at the beginning of a talk is the entirety of the data ccp collected. Example: Someone goes and eats loads of junk food, takes no exercise, almost dies of a heart attack and proclaims, "You see! I was right about healthy eating and training!"
Then I think, "Well obviously. That was plainly stupid to begin with; why did you just waste everyone's time?" I then leads me to question how that person's thought processes work to begin with that they present that.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1195
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Posted - 2015.04.02 00:22:56 -
[35] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:*offers a new dead horse to beat upon* Thank you. I will use it as bait and keep shooting the vultures.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1195
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Posted - 2015.04.02 00:43:43 -
[36] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:If you took the data from 80,000 people It doesn't matter if the data is from one person, 80 000 or twenty million. It is useless if you ask the wrong questions of the wrong people.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1195
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Posted - 2015.04.02 00:56:05 -
[37] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:What? You don't believe a population study on the risk of heart attack is better than a single data point (it's the example you used. No one else invented it)?. Let's go and ask 80 000 kids that are five years old about the heart attacks they have had. I am sssuuuuure they have had loads of them!
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1196
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:42:03 -
[38] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Blah Are you deliberately being dense? The orginal example pertains to developers that run silly queries against the database.
As to children having heart disease, is might be somewhat similar to newbies being "killed unlawfully" within 15 days.
"Look mummy! I am eating mud!" "Why are you showing me this? Why are your proud of being so mentally deficient?"
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1202
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Posted - 2015.04.02 18:59:18 -
[39] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Blah Are you deliberately being dense? The orginal example pertains to developers that run silly queries against the database. Asking the question "how many new players leave after being exploded by another player" is a silly question to ask when trying to assess why new players don't convert from trial to subscriber? CCP formulated a hypothesis - Yes, a bad hypothesis.
Why not simply asked newbies that are 15 day olds, "Why are you quitting?"
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1202
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Posted - 2015.04.02 23:27:13 -
[40] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:James kinda pretend to be space Jesus... You get that also?! The way the CODE fanatics press The Order on people has me refering to them to other people as, "Space Jehovahs" or "SJ"s now.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1202
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Posted - 2015.04.03 00:27:13 -
[41] - Quote
]Scipio Artelius wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:The orginal example pertains to developers that run silly queries against the database. Maybe you could explain in simple terms that even a dense person like me can understand, why that data presented as it was, was not relevant to the point Rise made? The problem is that the data was run at all. Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:... It was CCP who wondered if it was true what carebears claimed. They checked, if it was true that a high amount of new players is being griefed out of the game by being ganked, or ... Obvious flaw here. Ask 100 random carebears what determines new player and you will have 50 different answers. For the purpose of his presentation his definition is the only one that counts, our definitions are irrelevant. That said I'd be interested in seeing the results of any future studies done with extended timescales. Eve Solecist is making new definitions and a lot of guess work.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1202
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Posted - 2015.04.03 00:40:48 -
[42] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:The problem is that the data was run at all. People like you wanted to burn Galileo. I'm just saying. Quote:A valid logical argument is one in which the conclusions follow from its premises, and its conclusions are consequences of its premises. If the premises are garbage throw out the rest.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1202
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Posted - 2015.04.03 00:48:27 -
[43] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: If the premises are garbage throw out the rest. Says the head of what amounts to Eve's flat Earth society. I look at the profile picture of your rather flat, table topped, looking head and have a good laugh.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1206
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Posted - 2015.04.03 02:43:42 -
[44] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:If true, this is the first I've heard about it. Would you have a source for your information? Party 1, "I have studied the density of 80 000 granite pebbles to see if they are more dense than granite rocks. " Party 2, "That is a stupid study because granite is granite and on average they will have the same density under the same conditions." Party 3, "Where is your proof? Have you studied 80 000 granite rocks?" Party 2, "I do not need proof. It is evident that their study is based on a stupid idea to start off with."
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1207
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Posted - 2015.04.03 11:19:06 -
[45] - Quote
It is so good being the OP because I can link to the sane posts in a long thread from the very first post, ones such as these.
Dracvlad wrote:Well the analysis was on something that is not what people was talking about as the issue.... Nevyn Auscent wrote:Basically, you all are inventing results from a study, and would get laughed out of any scientific establishment with your reaching for straws.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1209
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Posted - 2015.04.03 19:07:30 -
[46] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Not the best English I could have used, lets try again:
The issue with player loss to ganking was always those that were 7 months to a year old who had just got into a more expensive mining ship and it was especially bad when CCP ignored the fact that all their mining ships had the tank of a wet paper bag and their failure to address that was a major reason for that player loss.
Quote that now!
We are still waiting for this to be shown to be true. Literally every single survey, graph and data point taken on this subject shows ganking does not make players quit.
Most of the rage quits I have seen where ratters. The miners seem to slip away more quietly and a bit slower after saying good bye to a few people or saying where they are going so that might skew the parameters a bit.
As for the raging ratters that resign it is usually due to getting into their first battleship, over estimating its abilities then having their dreams and all their ISK blown up in one go.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1209
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Posted - 2015.04.03 19:16:30 -
[47] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Thanks btw You are a complete numptie. It is rather obvious that I am talking from a personal perspective and was tempering what was said about miners rage quitting.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1209
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Posted - 2015.04.03 19:23:19 -
[48] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote: Doesn't mean CCP should stop trying. Casting a wide net means most will be unsuitable, but that's just the price to be paid for finding the small percentage that will stick around. Hence why I advocate some targetted marketing. (Also quoted to the OP) Dracvlad wrote:Quote that now! Donebonkerss wrote: Eve is a game that is only addictive for a very special breed of people. (probably sociopaths with a evil tendency:=) Personally I play EVE because it is a tad bit more challenging that most of the other online games and I find solo games a bit lacking in depth with the AI. I was under what is more and more becoming apparent, a misconception that the EVE community was of a calibre above average.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1211
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Posted - 2015.04.04 00:23:30 -
[49] - Quote
Mia Keldarin wrote:Sure, there's nothing like going for pvp to learn about pvp but this has a cost for rookies ... Why loosing money in pvp when tutorials gives rewards for pve and that's their first impression in the game. . I got this far with your post and had a weird idea.
What if the game checks if there are two newbies online and their next mission is to kill each other? They get kill rights, they see where each other are, they have a time limit, so one can hide if they want but their rookie ship will be replaced ...
Main problem is alts with game knowledge and ISK to pimp their rookie ship ... but that could be argued to be a lesson in EVE also.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1213
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Posted - 2015.04.04 18:13:53 -
[50] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:If you read the NPC corp thread people are equating this 1% ganked statistic NPC corps high population is a result of broken war mechanics and corps not having enough value to new players.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1216
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Posted - 2015.04.04 23:30:52 -
[51] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:ohhhh ... you mean the alliance that started out with hundreds of fresh newbies who got massacred in HEK, went to low sec and got massacred in Rahadalon, moved to Barleguet and got massacred yet again ... then moved via Sendaya to Catch and with a little help from friends conquered the entire region. Then they fought PL supercap fleets and everytging else they could throw at them for over 6 months and they got massacred again and again ... and yet they still have over 14,000 members who love this game, and learn and teach every day and are a main reason why people keep playing this game after their trial periods end ... yes we are WAY above average dude. ... or unable to see when to give up. Pandemic Legion played with Brave like a cat with mice. It didn't kick you all out right away - where would the fun be in that?
"Digging graves," a strange phrase that is only applicable to those that care about public opinion.
There are different ways to look at things:
Personally, I have seen people rage quit after losing their first battleship. Logically, I know people quit for a multitude of other reasons. Logically, I would be more concerned about people quitting, between a month and a year old because they have invested more time in the game, so there must be stronger reasons for why they quit. Logically, I know that this study was ridiculous before it was even conducted.
Personally, I stand by what I said, EVE is not full of people going, "Boost plz!," "Game only starts when you are in a Titan!" and so forth but I am coming across a lot of people who are rather average and continue to play EVE because they are too stubborn or full of themselves to give up, despite failing miserably and constantly for years. People who get stuck in their small groups of space jocks and space goths or what ever high school like cliques you want to parallel them with, doing that to the detriment of a larger group.
Much like the forum trolls who run around in a group, you will see the same names attacking the same ideas. I can almost believe that they have an in game channel and link threads to each other; they are so quick to pounce. They do it blindly, without logic, without constructing something better; simply for the "forum PVP" to shoot someone down and flexing their feeble intellectual muscles in order to try feel better about themselves.
I dismiss their opinions as irrelevant and more often than not scroll right past their posts, by looking at the profile images.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1216
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Posted - 2015.04.04 23:42:54 -
[52] - Quote
2015-04-04 21:41:22 UTC 2015-04-04 23:30:52 UTC 2015-04-04 23:37:23 UTC 2015-04-04 23:38:40 UTC
"See how they run"
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1216
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Posted - 2015.04.05 00:42:33 -
[53] - Quote
How many were looking to PVP? How many were avoiding PVP? How many defending space? How many exploring? How many in travel fits? How many were bait? How many were suicide attacking? How many were ambushed? How many quit after their ship blew up? How many quit after a social interaction? How many quit for real life reasons? Was that counting only active members in the corp? How much interaction did the older accounts have with the newer ones in that corps?
That is just the tip of the iceberg from the top of my head.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1216
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Posted - 2015.04.05 01:58:57 -
[54] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote: Moving goal posts I am not moving goal posts. I haven't put up any "win" criteria or goal posts. I am simply pointing out that the statistics are not indepth enough or of a wide enough scope.
... and that is the whole purpose of this thread, why I started it. CCP Rise put very little thought into a study and felt that was enough to then go and present it, with whatever agenda, he then added to it.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1216
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Posted - 2015.04.05 11:24:01 -
[55] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kaely Tanniss wrote:The funny thing is, most don't care one bit and only use it to futher their own agenda against something THEY don't like. . Freakin well said. (Crazy melodrama) (Still more crazy melodrama): ... these types that not only are they playing a game they don't like, but they are PAYING in some fashion to play a game they don't like. That Jenshae character that started this thread and accuses CCP Rise of an 'agenda' is paying CCP Rises salary every month ....(even more crazy melodrama). How does your brain go from, "I think this study is not indepth enough," to, "paying ... to play a game they don't like"?
Quote:Me, "I don't think enough apple saplings have been planted." One group, "Yes! Clearly red apples are the best." Another group, "LISTEN! LISTEN! I have been telling you all for years that green apples are the best. Now it is obvious! LOL"
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1216
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Posted - 2015.04.05 11:48:14 -
[56] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:lol this thread is still going. Stop talking to the monkeys already.
The ability to speak does not make intelligent. It is only peanuts. If it keeps them distracted from other threads then I am performing a service.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1220
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Posted - 2015.04.05 12:33:55 -
[57] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:i have no idea who solstice is referring to Exactly! However, it doesn't matter, I got to twist their post first. Nanananananananabananamanananana!
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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